And looking back, its easy to be nostalgic about how things were with Bush and Blair, because it looks like these people were easier to hold to account. But this gets out, and suddenly you see it on the front page of The Observer when you go to buy, what, milk in the morning for you and your husband. There have been other attempts to make a film over the years. AMY GOODMAN: So, and we want to get to all that, but nowwe want to get to all that, but right now youre showing this film around the country. AMY GOODMAN: And so, you decide to go back and revealwho was it that was questioning you? Her life story is depicted in the new film Official Secrets. In Part 2 of our discussion, we speak with Katharine Gun; the British journalists who reported on Guns revelations in The Observer newspaper, Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy; and Gavin Hood, director of Official Secrets.. So her moral certainty was rooted in those formative experiences? If the war was illegal and she broke the law in order to expose an illegal war and potentially save hundreds of thousands of lives, I can use this defense of necessitythats usually used in more mundane, dare I say, contextsin this great political trial., And so he says, All right, now I need to know whether the war was legal or illegal. And he says, I need to find out what Lord Goldsmiths, the attorney-generals, legal position was in the run-up to that war. She knows what it's like to have her face slapped, her bones broken and her nose bloodied by her former bully of a husband, an active Marine Colonel and a man who she claims is "above the law and literally gets away with murder." delivered to your inbox every day! I mean, this has been going on for a number of years, and it always sort of ended up kind of petering out, so, GAVIN HOOD: Other people had approached you before. KATHARINE GUN: No, she hasnt. And yeah, it was, AMY GOODMAN: And what did you think, whenbefore you had seen Katharine and met her, what did you imagine she would be like, this young woman, 27-year-old woman of conscience, who. Gun thinks she might speak out more considering the current state of political affairs and massive citizen involvement in sociopolitical issues. What does she hope people will take from the film? And so, a lot, a lot later. I had made a film called Eye in the Sky, with the producer Ged Doherty, and we were looking for another project to do together. MARTIN BRIGHT: No, it was the Tony Blair Faith Foundation. So. Her performance reminds you of the sentiment of Daniel Ellsberg, the man who famously leaked the Pentagon Papers to the New York Times in 1971, revealing the full truth of American involvement in Vietnam. The people who went in and smashed it up in 2003, do they watch the news? MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, I must say, when I found out how young she was, it did take me by surprise, and the fact that she was a translator. You want to know where he is? he said. What were your thoughts then? She continues to reside in Turkey and occasionally visits Britain. You may not know the name Katharine Gun unless you live in the United Kingdom, but she was a pivotal figure in the run-up to the Iraq War.Or at least, she could have been. The difference, I think, is that hereand your program and your viewers are testimony to thisyou have an opposition. Shes not wearing tons of makeup. Katharine Gun - who's played by Keira Knightley in a forthcoming film - blew the whistle on a dodgy scheme by the American government. Copy may not be in its final form. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. One foundered for lack of funds, another strayed further from the truth than she would have liked. Published on May 3, 2021 08:23 PM. Is that when you both met? whistleblower and former specialist for Britains Government Communications Headquarters. And at some point, with great respect to Lord Goldsmith, he caves. "[15], In September 2019 Ken Macdonald, the former director of public prosecutions, said the case against Gun was not dropped in order to stop the Attorney General's advice on the legality of the Iraq War from being revealed. Shes beginning to understand the issues, but she hasnt seen it yet, Gun said in 2019 when her daughter was 11-years-old. I mean, we certainly did meet in the courthouse. Get Democracy Now! So, lots of leads there. The legal case against Gun was eventually dropped by the British government in 2004, after her lawyer, Ben Emmerson QC (played in the film with fabulous charisma by Ralph Fiennes), threatened to use disclosure to put the legal basis of the war itself on trial. Shes beginning to understand the issues, but she hasnt seen it yet. Its the intelligence agency, like the NSA, the National Security Agency, in the U.S. She leaked a memo revealing that the United States was collaborating with Britain in collecting sensitive information on United Nations Security Council members, countries, in order to pressure the members, the ambassadors, into supporting the Iraq invasion of March 2003. Im going to start with you, Gavin. "The U.S. government, through the NSA, was spying in violation of international law on other UN Security Council members in order to better coerce them to back the invasion of Iraq. Shes ordinary. It was with the help of MP Nigel Jones that Gun finally managed to free Yasar, reasserting his right to stay in the UK. And the memo was like this big red flag as soon as I saw it.. [5], On 13 November 2003, Gun was charged with an offence under section 1 of the Official Secrets Act 1989. The Case Against Mary Katherine Higdon 43:11. Yes and no. Katharine 'Kay' Griggs knows what it's like to have a gun pointed in her face. I hope when shes ready for this story, she will [see the film]. [5] Less than a week after the Observer story, on Wednesday 5 March, Gun confessed to her line manager at GCHQ that she had leaked the email, and was arrested. UPDATED with latest attendees, livestream link: President Joe Biden and First Lady Jill Biden, as well as Vice President Kamala Harris and Second Gentleman Doug Emhoff, will attend Saturday's . I work for the British people. So I saw people going in and coming out and going in and coming out. She was the real-life translator who photocopied . My childhood friend, for example, I remember hearing her father was on a blacklist because he had been agitating for the opposition. I wonder what she made of the scattershot download methods of Edward Snowden and Julian Assange? Something like. The last few hectic days have left her relieved and happy, she says, but completely uncertain as to her future. [5], Gun graduated with an upper second-class degree, then took a job as an assistant English teacher with the JET program in Hiroshima, Japan. Who is her husband? [24] In July 2019, in a lengthy interview on the US program Democracy Now!, Gun, Gavin Hood (the film's director), and Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy (the journalists who broke the story of the leaked memo) discussed the events that the film describes. And now you go back into work. AMY GOODMAN: Shes then arrested. is katharine gun still married to yasar. . AMY GOODMAN: But what caused you to say no? They were just going to pick him up, and took him out. I took up teaching. Domination, Sing Your Song: Remembering Harry Belafonte, Who Used His Stardom to Help. But that is unbelievably difficult now especially in the digital world.. Ten years ago, a young Mandarin specialist at GCHQ, the government's surveillance centre in Cheltenham, did something extraordinary. And as Martin has just said, and as Katharine put it so well in the film, you know, wars, unlike football and basketball games, do not end when the whistle blows. AMY GOODMAN: They said you could have pled. KATHARINE GUN: It was GCHQ internal security, yeah. And we had to sit and wait for two hours while they winged it down from London. Her act of whistleblowing cost her a career as a translator at the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), made her stand in a highly publicized trial for violating the Official Secrets Act, and reduced her chances of getting another job due to being an internationally recognized whistleblower. You're KATHARINE GUN: . As of 2020[update] Gun lives in Turkey and Britain. And, with great respect, I think he did. AMY GOODMAN: So, before the time of the trial, Katharine, youthey have clamped down on you. I wish I could have written that scene. Interview: Whistleblower Katharine Gun. Protesters against the invasion of Iraq, February 2003. When do you first meet, you, the person who exposed this story, Martin Bright, and Katharine Gun? During the season 5 finale of American Idol, Katharine McPhee was named the runner-up against winner Taylor Hicks. Gun had, of course, been forced to abandon her career in the civil service and finally, struggling for work, left Britain altogether. In January that year, Katharine Gun was copied into a classified memo sent to GCHQ by a senior figure in the NSA, its US equivalent. And they attempt to deport your husband, who is a? At the time, as I well remember, the paper was split in response to the talk of war. I didnt want to be that. So I was bailed until November, when they charged me. So, in the film, when the director of public prosecutions says to Ben Emmerson, trying to wiggle out of it, Listen, it wasnt my decision to prosecute. Thats actually true. It was in character, I think. These were, as I said before, bitter times. And then, on Tuesday, they called me in, and I went in. ", "US plan to bug Security Council: the text", "Let's free the Official Secrets Act from its cold war freeze | Alex Bailin", "Leaking or briefing? I think a lot of our current issues go back to that time. Explain what happened at the Q&A, Martin. I think youll find hes hiding in plain sight. And there was a dramatic hush in the audience. "[5], Gun's regular job at GCHQ in Cheltenham was to translate Mandarin Chinese into English. Now, the defense of necessity is usually used in very more simple circumstances. Whistleblower Katharine Gun and journalist Martin Bright are interviewed for their new movie Official Secrets for the film's LFF screening. And after about three weeks of this meeting these extraordinary people, I said to Jed, I think I think I would like to do this. And thats where the story came from. And nor do newspaper stories. You have the U.S. in the longest war in U.S. history, in Afghanistan. We do not accept funding from advertising, underwriting or government agencies. But, you know, these things happen. GAVIN HOOD: Yes, strong women. I am currently reading a book about how to blow the whistle. You think everyone sees on your face that youre the leaker. [21], Gun received the Sam Adams Award for 2003 and was supported in her case by the UK human rights pressure group Liberty and in the US by the Institute for Public Accuracy. Yeah, so it was panic stations after that. There are plenty of opportunities here for other journalists to take up the baton and find out what really happened. I ended up, bizarrely, teaching a couple of my former colleagues at GCHQ. Was she immediately frightened of the consequences? Shes out. Maybe there will be sympathy.. AMY GOODMAN: I mean, youre the guy who broke the story that showed that Britain was collaborating with the U.S. in trying to get dirt on U.S. ambassadors, AMY GOODMAN: to get them to vote for the war in Iraq, which ended up killingwhat do you say at the end of the film? This is notthis fringe idea of the war has never ended since 1991, what nonsense. They said, Plead out., AMY GOODMAN: We dont want you to go to jail for years. And then I went on to interview Martin and Ed and then Ben Emmerson, the lawyer. I hope, when shes ready for this story, she will. KATHARINE GUN: So, on Wednesday morning, I called in sick. Your question about now, this is all terribly relevant. GAVIN HOOD: What she discovers saysis a request from the NSA to GCHQ to hack, bug the private communications and the office communications of U.N. Security Council members, in particular the nonpermanent members, the more junior members. So, they immediatelywell, first of all, my manager said, What would you like to do? And I said, Well, pfff, what can I do? You know, we have to tell internal security. Lets find out! Strange Hollywood person. " Gun tails off, as if embarrassed to make too grand a claim for herself. Thats our job. So I really didnt want any of that to be scrutinized because it just felt too vulnerable, stated Gun, on why she chose to retreat from the limelight once the dust had settled. KATHARINE GUN: No, nothing atwell, they said they were arresting me on suspicion of breaking the Official Secrets Act. AMY GOODMAN: And so, what did you do when they said, Were going to take each one of you into a room.. Katharine Gun's case can also be very relevant for Julian Assange's defense: "Within half an hour, the case was dropped because the prosecution declined to offer evidence. Later, he stands by her as the many intricacies and dangers of his wifes profession and act of bravery surface. Iraq war whistleblower Katharine Gun: Truth always matters. Gavin Hood, the director of Official Secrets, expressed scepticism about Macdonald's statement and called for the declassification of the official documents referred to by Macdonald. The implosion continues. A film, Official Secrets, has been made of her story. [3], Katharine Harwood moved to Taiwan in 1977 with her parents, Paul and Jan Harwood. And the potential chink in the Official Secrets Act we had found, which could have become a defence for others, the defence of necessity [of speaking up to save imminent danger to life], it wasnt tested in court.. AMY GOODMAN: The San Francisco Film Festival. The original content of this program is licensed under a. Her father had studied Chinese at Durham University and now teaches at Tunghai University in the city of Taichung, central Taiwan. AMY GOODMAN: And what did you tell Katharine at that time? ED VULLIAMY: Mr. Alton, screechy, ultra-right-wing. He didnt know I had leaked this memo. By Ben Davies BBC News Online political staff at the TUC in Brighton There is something about Katharine Gun that makes her seem an unlikely candidate for whistleblowing. Right? And I was tasked to set up a website to look into this. Before I knew it, I had spent two hours researching Katharine. Bright has also been closely involved with the film. These were the six "swing nations" on the UN Security Council that could determine whether the UN approved the invasion of Iraq. So I was . Powered by WordPress.com VIP. No, Gun replied, steadily. I was very concerned about joining any kind of organisation like Stop the War, and being used as a focal point or something. Gun leaked the memo to the press in 2003, setting off a chain of events that jeopardized her freedom and safety, but also opened the door to putting the entire legality of the Iraq invasion on trial. Ben Emmerson decides the way to defend Katharine Gun is to ask for Lord Goldsmiths documents. I mean, I dont think we imagined that we would be still friends and still talking about it 14, 15 years later. And really, you know, she had so many questions for me, and she really genuinely wanted to know about the whole situation. (In fact, those -our and -ise endings had been introduced by an Observer editorial assistant, innocently following house style guidelines as she copied out the memo into the system.) MARTIN BRIGHT: We didI tell you what, though, we did feel that we had failed. ED VULLIAMY: Yes, the people who were giving Martin traction to get this story out, and who effectively, according to Mr. Daviess book, censored mine, about the cooking-up of the WMD and the fact that we knew Saddam didnt have any. I mean, I literallyI couldnt eat. And if you are working in government, make sure that you are really clued up about what is going on, and think very hard where your responsibility lies.. Gun owned up to the leak a few days later to save her GCHQ colleagues from a witch-hunt. Now, Martin, at this point, youve defended your story. It was weird. We rely on contributions from our viewers and listeners to do our work. To see Part 1 of our discussion, go to democracynow.org. But lets go back to the moment. He was Kurdishhe is Kurdish. . Ralph Fiennes, fantastic, wonderful actor. AMY GOODMAN: That was 2014. [9] Gun spent a night in police custody, and eight months later was charged with breaking the Official Secrets Act. Youre breaking the speed limit. So give us the nutthe nutshell description of this story. Why did you drop the case? [5] In February, she travelled to London to take part in the demonstration against the impending invasion of Iraq. You authorized her prosecution. The woman in her 20s attempted to stop the war and firmly stood to her truthful morals. Gun, too, had expressed relief that the events are now part of a broader discussion due to the film and that she can finally talk about it without stress. AMY GOODMAN: The horror of what you did not succeed in preventing, though, which was the deaths of so many in Iraq, and that continues today, but you certainly touched the conscience of not just the nation, but the world, in what you did, talking about what womanwhat one woman could do. And so, but theres another irony about the position of the attorney general, which is, the director of public prosecutions in Britain generally has real autonomy in deciding what cases to prosecute, except in cases of the Official Secrets Act, when he or she must get the authorization of the attorney general to prosecute.
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